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"As for listening to the public, don't forget that we ARE the public."

Finally an answer from a BC Citizens' Assembly member as to why they did not listen to the public and the public's overwhelming support for a Mixed Member Proportional Electoral system instead of the Citizens' Assembly choice of an Single Transferable Vote system.
 
BC STV - The Wrong Choice
Mr Maclachlan, it's not just me having trouble with the decision, the process and the undemocratic nature of the BC Citizens' Assembly. Read below.


- On this page -

Recent Observations | Journalists | DCBC | Don Maclachlan | Background | The Last Word
 
Recent Observations
 

     Who Exactly Are You Working For?

DeepCoveBC.com received this email asking about our intentions. A little forward I thought so I wrote back and asked exactly who this person is working for. So far - no response.

[I have blocked all names and contact info.]

Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by
Xxxxx Xxxxxx (XxxxxXxxxxx@xxx.xx) on Saturday, February 12, 2005 at 21:43:45
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear DeepCove,

My name is Xxxxx Xxxxxx. I am a political science graduate student at the University of British Columbia. Through the department I was fortunate enough to be employed as a facilitator with the Citizens Assembly for Electoral Reform. I am now conducting research on the various campaign efforts that have formed that either support or oppose the BC-STV system proposed by the Assembly.

I learned of your involvement through this website and I was hoping you would be able to answer some questions for my research. At this point I have a few questions about how your group was formed and your campaign strategies for the coming weeks.

1. Your positions on the referendum are clear. Can you explain why you are opposed to the BC-STV electoral system?
2. How did you become involved with DeepCove? When did the group form?
3. What is the size of the membership of your group?
4. Beyond the information and materials available on your website does your group have any other campaign strategies planned for the coming months?
5. How is your group funding its campaign efforts?
6. What do you anticipate your total expenditures will be by the time of the referendum?
7. Are you working with any other groups on this campaign?
8. If you had to guess, what do you think the result of the referendum will be?

Please feel free to respond by email or if you would prefer I can also be reached at 555-555-5555 during the day. I will be following the content on your website over the next 3 months and if possible I would like to contact you again as the referendum date approaches.

Thank you for you time and energy.

Sincerely,

Xxxxx Xxxxxx



     BC Citizens' Assembly Website Adds Some Quotes But Misses The Point

 


The BC Citizens' Assembly has placed a few quotes from organizations supporting STV on the Assembly's website. There are some interesting points about these organizations and what they wrote that the Assembly didn't put on their website. Remember to follow the link, don't stop at the quote given on the BC Citizens' Assembly website. Okay, you're a busy person, here's what's also on those pages.

BC Citizens Assembly BC STV BC Citizens Assembly The Electoral Reform Society in London, England.
Funny how the Assembly has to go so far afield to find support for STV. More interesting than this society is this Society's subsidiary - Electoral Reform Services is "the leading specialist in the worldwide management of ballots and elections".

The Services of the Electoral Reform Society? "..conducting a ballot or election is a complex operation, requiring specialist knowledge to ensure that the validity of the result is accepted by all.

We are Britain's leading provider of ballot advisory, management and associated services to UK and worldwide organisations. With over 115 years' experience of independent, not-for-profit ballot administration and a fully integrated in-house service, we are uniquely qualified to guide organisations through the complex procedural, legal and practical requirements for a fair and efficient voting process."   (http://www.erbs.co.uk/)

DCBC - No wonder the Electoral Reform Society supports STV - they are in the business of STV with their 'specialist knowledge' to conduct such a 'complex operation'.


BC Citizens Assembly BC STV BC Citizens Assembly ACE Project (Administration and Cost of Elections)
The BC Citizens' Assembly website offered the ACE Project as a supporter of Ireland's STV electoral system.

Here are a few of the things ACE Project wrote about STV that don't appear of the BC Citizens' Assembly website:

"...all parties, large and small, have been accurately represented in relation to their size, with the larger parties only slightly over-represented."
[ BC Citizens Assembly tells us that STV doesn't help large parties - they're just "slightly over-represented" - no big deal I guess]

"...members of parliament are predominantly professional people, with very few working-class MPs."
[ We can't have the working class involved in politics can we?]

"Women are also under-represented..."
[ Hmm, Adriane Carr mentioned this but then again she would she's a woman]

"STV is criticised because of the intense competition that it generates between candidates, especially candidates of the same party."
[ Is this what the BC Citizens' Assembly thinks makes a good electoral system?]

(www.aceproject.org/main/english/es/esy_ie.htm)

 
  Journalists
 
Stephen Hume of the Vancouver Sun
http://www.canada.com/vancouver/vancouversun/index.html
 
 
Bill Tieleman of the Georgia Straight
http://www.georgiastraight.com/
 
The Tyee and it's Readers
http://www.thetyee.ca/Views/current/WeeEasyasSTV.htm
 
National Party of New Zealand - 100,000 STV Votes Likely to Be Discarded
Read the Press Release here.
 
Ireland Electoral Act - PART XIX RULES FOR THE COUNTING OF THE VOTES
Read the Irish STV Vote Counting Rules here.
 
StrategicThoughts - Disadvantages Revealed in Assembly's Recommendation
Read Say NO To STV here.
 
  DeepCoveBC
 
DeepCoveBC.com
 
  Mr Don Maclachlan


You Have Feedback!
Don Maclachlan
Associate director of communication Citizens' Assembly on Electoral Reform


  Background to BC Citizens' Assembly Process

 
Good Background Reading

Posted earlier before the Citizens' Assembly made their decision. Good to read for background if you didn't follow the Citizens' Assembly process.

Submission to the BC Citizens' Assembly by Paul George
This past spring, I attended every educational session of the Citizens' Assembly open to the public in the Wosk Centre for Dialogue. I found them interesting and informative. However, already knowing quite a bit about the Mixed Member Proportional as well as other electoral systems, there were times that I found that the explanations of how these systems worked was not as thorough or accurate as they could have been.

There were times that I found that the explanations of how these [electoral] systems worked was not as thorough or accurate as they could have been.

Gradually I became alarmed that there was a growing bias towards STV from the instructors that was rubbing off on Assembly members. Assertions were made that STV systems gave voters 'maximum voter choice' and that these systems 'weakened political parties'. I could see that these points resonated with many Assembly members who were disgusted with the major political parties in BC and that Assembly members accepted these assertions without question.

On one occasion an instructor said that MMP elected 'Zombie politicians' (politicians who voters rejected at the constituency level yet got re-elected via a party list so that voters couldn't get rid of them). I had never heard of this term, despite studying various European and New Zealand systems. This piece of information made headline news in the Vancouver Sun, prejudicing people against MMP.

As part of the preparation for this submission I made a Google search on the web for the term 'Zombie Politicians' and found that the only reference to this term as used by your instructor for the election of a list MP or MLA was on the Citizens' Assembly website!

As part of the preparation for this submission I made a Google search on the web for the term 'Zombie Politicians' and found that the only reference to this term as used by your instructor for the election of a list MP or MLA was on the Citizens' Assembly website!

STV was held up as a type of proportional representation system, which I found out is not the case by questioning David M. Farrell, the author of the main text used by Assembly Members - Electoral Systems: a comparative introduction. Dr. Farrell supports STV and came to explain STV to the Assembly members. During a break he was asked if, indeed, STV was a proportional representation voting system. He said that it was not a proportional system by design but by chance it can give some proportional results depending on the district magnitude.

During a break he [Dr Farrell] was asked if, indeed, STV was a proportional representation voting system. He said that it was not a proportional system by design but by chance it can give some proportional results depending on the district magnitude.

Factual information about exactly how STV works in Ireland and Malta, the two countries where it is used, was not given in much detail to Assembly members. Interestingly, when Dr. Farrell was asked directly by an Assembly member, 'Why do you prefer STV?' during question period at the end of his lecture he replied bluntly that his preference was 'irrational'. It was simply that it was the system he grew up with.

Interestingly, when Dr. Farrell was asked directly by an Assembly member, 'Why do you prefer STV?' during question period at the end of his lecture he replied bluntly that his preference was 'irrational'.

Armed with the education from Farrell's book and the information gathered at the six weekend sessions, Assembly members went out to gather public input at 50 public hearing around the province. I personally attended the first two public hearings as well as three others. From observing these meetings I got the impression that many of the questions asked by Assembly members of MMP supporters were obtuse and designed to elicit answers from the presenters that demonstrated that either the person hadn't fully considered STV or that the person might be comfortable with another unspecified proportional system (STV was not mentioned but perhaps implied). These were 'fishing questions' looking for an answer that could later be interpreted that the person really didn't understand the MMP system or the virtues of a STV system.

Subsequently, I read every summary of the presenters at the public hearing posted on the Citizens' Assembly website and this pattern persisted.

Also undue weight was put on the submissions of the few supporters of STV who did present. In Nelson, when one person from outside the community was flown in to give a presentation in support of STV, the Assembly's press release failed to indicate that the vast majority of the other presentations supported MMP.

The finally tally of presentations at the public hearings shows that there were 188 presenters backing MMP to 20 for STV or a variant of STV.

The finally tally of presentations at the public hearings shows that there were 188 presenters backing MMP to 20 for STV or a variant of STV.

However members and staff began to discount this show of support by saying that MMP submissions were not as detailed as STV submissions and by implication saying that the STV submission carried more weight. On my viewing of all the submission both the summaries of the public hearing and the written ones I did not find that this was true. There were only two very detailed STV variant systems presented.

There was also a false rumour spread around among CA members that 40% of the submissions came from Green Party members and that the Green Party had packed the public hearing implying that the MMP submissions could therefore also be discounted for that reason and therefore did not need to be given much weight. This false information was published both in the Cranbrook Townsman and in the Vancouver Sun without a letter from the CA staff setting the record straight published in these papers.

Nowhere is the bias towards STV most evident that in the selection of those who get a chance to present to the plenary on September 11, 2004. Three of the nine presenters are STV supporters-one third of the presenters, despite support for STV in the public hearing and public on-line input phase being less than 5%.

Three of the nine presenters are STV supporters-one third of the presenters, despite support for STV in the public hearing and public on-line input phase being less than 5%.

As of the end of the public input phase with 1060 written submissions posted on the Citizens' Assembly website there were 515 different persons providing written support for MMP and only 40 for STV. Of the 40 submission, ten came from outside Canada and one had to be a satire for it extolled STV because it seemed to keep women out of politics and keep them in their place. Approximately 167 of the 1060 submissions are either outside the mandate of the Citizens' Assembly or do not recommend a voting system. Of all the submissions that do recommend a particular type of voting system, 80% support a proportional representation system in which a party's share of seats is determined by its share of vote (515 submissions specifically supporting MMP plus 188 asking generally for proportional representation). Several significant BC unions (BCGEU and the Nurses Union) also sent in submissions in support of an MMP voting system for BC.

In my opinion, the breadth of public support for MMP, should make it easy for Citizens' Assembly members to choose change, choose MMP, and get on with the work of developing the details of the best possible 'made in BC' MMP system to be put to voters in a referendum next May.

In my opinion, the breadth of public support for MMP, should make it easy for Citizens' Assembly members to choose change, choose MMP, and get on with the work of developing the details of the best possible 'made in BC' MMP system to be put to voters in a referendum next May.

If for some reason an STV system is put forward by the Citizens' Assembly, I believe it will surely fail in a referendum vote, just as that choice fails to faithfully reflect the vast majority of public input to the Assembly. Sadly, if this happens, something just as important as BC getting a fair voting system will fail, too, and that is the grand democratic experiment of the Citizens' Assembly itself: that randomly chosen citizens can make wise democratic decisions regarding matters of critical public policy.

For your information: I was one of the 17 founders of the Green Party of BC in 1983 and at that time became a keen advocate of proportional representation. In early 2002, I traveled to New Zealand, spending three weeks there investigating how MMP works. I worked full time as a volunteer on the 2002 Initiative to Establish a Proportional Representation Electoral System in BC, conducting research, writing educational materials, coordinating volunteers, printing and mailing out information and petitions and answering questions from the public on how the proposed MMP voting system, the subject of the Initiative would work in BC.

I am one of the founding directors of the Free Your Vote Pro Rep Society established after the 2002 Initiative was over, with the aim of continuing to promote an MMP system in BC. In late April 2004, prior to the beginning of the public hearing phase, I brought in a submission in separate envelopes addressed to every Assembly member which contained our educational paper that promoted participation in the CA's public hearings. This submission however was not sent out until this month. I hope every Assembly member reads the 8-page newspaper titled Help make BC's voting system fair 'Participate now in the Citizens' Assembly on Electoral Reform Hope for Democracy in BC.

This educational newspaper, which I helped write, can be accessed through the Free Your Vote Website: http://www.freeyourvote.bc.ca/ http://www.freeyourvote.bc.ca/pdfFreeYourVote/ProRepNewspaper.pdf .

Free Your Vote Newspaper
Help make BC's voting system fair
'Participate now in the Citizens' Assembly on Electoral Reform Hope for Democracy in BC

Although our Free Your Vote Pro Rep Society is not yet two years old, compared to the six years that Fair Voting BC has been advocating electoral change, we have been able to generate much greater public support from across the political, social and geographic spectrums in BC for a fair MMP system than Fair Voting BC has been able to garner for STV.

Good luck with your deliberations this fall. The future of BC depends on you putting aside political prejudices and exercising practical collective wisdom.



Comment from Donald maclachlan
Associate director of communication, Citizens' Assembly on Electoral Reform


Below is the result of a DeepCoveBC.com feedback form. It was submitted by
Donald maclachlan (dmaclachlan@citizensassembly.bc.ca) on Monday, October 04, 2004 at 12:18:57
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: your coverage of the Citizens' Assembly on Electoral Reform:

Let me clear up a key point. You contend that the Assembly must be leaning in favour of STV, on the grounds that, of the nine final speakers, three favoured STV. But the selection of speakers, by a sub-committee of Assembly members, was made because of the perceived quality of the speakers' prior presentations to small groups, not because they represented or opposed any particular electoral model(s).

You also question why the nine included only two women. Again, the invitations to address the full Assembly were made because of the quality of the speakers' earlier presentations, not to reflect gender balance, age or other demographics.

As of this date (04 October 2004) the Assembly members have not reached their decision on a recommendation to the people of B.C. STV is still on the table. MMP is still on the table. So is the current First Past the Post system. In the words of Assembly chair Jack Blaney, "Nothing is decided until everything is decided", and that we expect on the weekend of October 23-24. Watch http://www.citizensassembly.bc.ca for details and timely updates.
One more thing: You recommend the submission by Paul George. A good man, that! But he, too, claims a bias towards STV that I must reject. He places some significance on the fact that of 1,060 written submissions from the public, 515 people supported MMP and only 40 backed STV. Seems to me that he is looking on the submissions as a reflective public opinion poll. Whether assembly members so look on it is entirely up to them.

Incidentally, there now are 1,063 submissions posted on the Assembly's website.

Regards,
Don Maclachlan
Associate director of communication
Citizens' Assembly on Electoral Reform
#2288 - 555 West Hastings St
PO Box 12118
Vancouver BC V6B 4N6
Phone: 604-660-1207 (1-866-667-1232)
Fax: 604-660-1236
E-mail: dmaclachlan@citizensassembly.bc.ca
Web: www.citizensassembly.bc.ca
Cell: 604-329-2090

 

     Our Last Word (for now).

Let's go over the important points about Single Transferable Voting (STV)

The Single Transferable Voting System:

- is not a truly proportional representation
- does nothing to bring women into elected office
- entrenches big vested parties
- is only in two countries - Ireland and Malta
- is not easily understood
- is not easily counted

Our One Chance?
Just one more thing - When people try to sell you on this system they may say that this is our one chance to change the voting system. That if we voters in BC choose not to change our electoral system that it will never be changed. And, furthermore, that once the system is changed once, it can be changed again. Don't believe it.

First - this is a bad system for the reasons stated above and voting for a system that does not truly represent the voters is not a positive move. It is not a step forward and does nothing to bring fair and democratic proportional representation (where the proportion of the government seats are distributed according to the exact proportion that the public voted) to British Columbia.

Second - Many other provinces and even the feds in this country and many in other countries are watching BC because they are also being pushed by their public for a fair electoral system.

By rejecting BC STV we show the country and the world that we cannot be lead down the garden path.

By rejecting BC STV we stand up for our right to a democratic electoral system and those looking into alternatives will realize that STV is not a system to choose.

By rejecting BC STV we show those who pushed their STV agenda and ignored true public input that they can't fool us. We're onto them.

Third - So, we won't get a new electoral system this time around. But we will eventually get it because once another area makes a move and changes to a truly democratic and easily understood electoral system our province will also make that change.

Suggestions to the BC Citizens' Assembly

Ask voters a few questions, just like you were asked:

1) Do you favour a change to the current first-past-the-post electoral system?

2) Do you favour the BC Citizens' Assembly recommendation of BC STV?

3) Do you favour another electoral system other than BC STV or the current first-past-the-post?


 
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